coronationstreetfandomcom-20200215-history
Forum:BFI visits
70s Street Fan asked on our twitter account for any more additional observations on the old episodes we watched last week at the BFI to enable us to update the pages on this site. As always, we divided and conquered with David watching one batch (mainly from 1971-5) and me watching episodes from 1969 to 1971. In truth, the episodes from 1969 and early 1970 we had seen before but at a time when we weren't logging places on the episode pages so I quickly went through these again to get that information. The first thing to note about episodes from late 1969 is that they are very studio based as the Grape Street set was out of commission as it was being rebuilt in brick in the last two months of 1969. There's a hilarious moment in Episode 938 (22nd December 1969) at the salon opening party where the camera has to move between two extras to get into shot two of the regulars in the background and the female extra looks straight to camera and pushes the guy out of the way to enable the camera through! Another noticeable thing about some episodes then was how often characters just walk in and out of each other's houses without knocking on the front door and you can't help but feel this was to reduce the need to have the hallway sets erected in studio as they are often not seen and doors into back rooms are placed such that they open towards the camera and you can't seen what lies beyond the main set. Scenes on the Grape Street set in 1970 are a mixture of film and outside broadcast with the latter being used as the most frequent option. Scenes elsewhere are rarer but almost always on film. The gypsy encampment scenes (on film) look as if they were shot on waste land near to Moss Side but I can't be sure of that. Certainly you can see the construction of some typically horrible 1970s-style flats going on in the background. The scenes in the Victoria Street mission in February 1970 and the Salvation Army hall in September of the same year are studio sets and are quite large and elaborate ones at that. The fight on the gypsy encampment in September 1970 is on film but most of the scene is from the viewpoint inside the studio based caravan belonging to the Smiths with the fight carried on from the noise outside. Although I couldn't be sure as the shot is so quick, it looks suspiciously like Ray Langton is the one who puts the axe through the caravan window but this goes against his non-violence instruction to Eddie Pritchard. Mark Howard is an interesting character who first appears to be charming and well-mannered (though with the most then-fashionable but hugest mutton chops you've ever seen this side of Amos Brearly!) but you sense something is not quite right with him. He slowly reveals what a nasty piece of work he is as the weeks wear on. I've seen these episodes in stages over several years now so I've got to piece together his character biog from scattered notes. David and I both agree that a character who is a real revelation from this period is Albert Tatlock. He is so funny it just isn't true. Basically, he's a naughty child who gets away with it because of his age. He tells it like it is and Jack Howarth's comic timing is impeccable. Prior to this period he's a nice old man (which is dull) and in the late 1970s he becomes just a moaner (which is also dull). The funniest episode I saw was Episode 1055 (24th February 1971) where Irma Barlow's posh voice when she pretends to be the Howard's daughter (or "mommy and dard-eh" as she calls them) is a scream! A gem of an episode and, like the one before it, all the location filming is in black and white while the studio footage is in colour as a hangover from the ITV Colour Strike. By the way, we have just 8 more episodes to watch from 1970 and we've seen all 96 though some we have to go back for to get the aforementioned places. For 1971 to 1975 we have some 50 eps a year yet to see and verify our plots, credits and cast information.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 11:50, February 11, 2014 (UTC) John,thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to write this piece. It's much appreciated,as I'm fascinated by this largely unrepeated,unreleased era of the series. Although episodes from this period may lack the raw energy of the 60s episodes or the pacier,more polished eps of the Podmore era,they're nonetheless an important part of the show's history with most of the legendary characters at the heart of the programme. It's interesting to read that some of the Street scenes were being shot on film at this stage. Also interesting to rad your observations on Albert. It's fascinating to see how characters slowly change over the years. Usually,I feel that really long running characters get increasingly closer to the actor's real personality as the years go by. Amazing that you've managed to see so many episodes already- only 8 left for 1970! Do you think that the most interesting episodes are generally selected for DVD release? It will be terrific if you manage to see all the 1970-76 eps eventually and amanage to confirm all the info. I guess it's going to be a lot more difficult to see the 1960s shows. Anyway,keep up the good work. I'd love to read more observations on your future trips,if it's not too much trouble, Regards70s Fan :Generally speaking, the choices for the DVD set were very good with the exception of 1975. I would definitely included this episode: Episode 1506 (23rd June 1975) and this one Episode 1482 (2nd April 1975) in place of some on that disc. One is possibly the funniest episode of the programme ever made whereas the latter is a barnstorming performance from Julie Goodyear.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 00:08, February 12, 2014 (UTC) ::I don't think the choices were all that great for all of 1970-5. It's true it's not quite as on fire as it was from 1976 onwards, but some of the episode choices are downright strange - Episode 1069 (14th April 1971), Episode 1321 (12th September 1973) and Episode 1481 (31st March 1975) spring to mind - they're not bad episodes, but the mind boggles what it is about them to made TPTB select them for the boxset (especially the last one being chosen over the episode after it). There's nothing of Elsie being run over in London, David and Darren's deaths, Gordon Clegg finding out his true parentage, the baby kidnap story in 1972, only one episode with Nellie Harvey when this was her glory period, and loads of episodes that stand out individually like Episode 1055 (24th February 1971). David (talk) 09:58, February 12, 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks guys for your thoughts on how representative the Network releases were for those particular years. I've always been rather intrigued as to why certain episodes have made onto the DVD sets whilst others haven't. Regarding 1975,I've sadly not seen 1506 but managed to see 1482 on the Granada Plus Bet Lynch specials. Another surprising omission is from '75 is 1519(Albert Tatlock's 80th Birthday Party)which works well as a stand alone type episode. I wonder were they conscious of not releasing all of the best episodes in case of further volumes for those years. Sometimes we got the episode leading up to a significant moment as in 1481. Perhaps they hoped to put 1482 on the next volume. Although if that was the case they probably would've opted for 1535(the Warehouse Fire)rather than the folllow up episode. Even allowing for the challenge of selecting just eight episodes out of 104 or so,there are usually some surprising decisions. Perhaps we will get some more releases at some point. Once again,thanks for sharing your thoughts guys. There can't be many people around who've seen so many shows from this period and it's great to hear what you think about them. Regards70s Fan (talk) 18:57, February 12, 2014 (UTC) Visit: September 2014 (Discussion moved from User talk:70s Fan, User talk:Jtomlin1uk and User talk:David the Wavid) Hey 70s Fan, is there anything in particular you want me to comment on about the episodes seen at the BFI, episodes/characters? David (talk) 09:52, October 6, 2014 (UTC) Hi David. Thanks for your message on my Talk Page. Don't mean to put you under any pressure,but I it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on any episodes or stories that you thought were noteworthy- as in particularly well done( or even not so well done!)or even worthy of DVD release. I'm especially interested in the ones you've seen from early 1976- the final ones from the Susi Hush era. I was also slightly curious as to why you don't seem to view all the episodes in sequence. I understand that you and John watch different episodes,and that you've already seen many of them previously. Anyway,thanks for your co operation,David. I'll look forward to reading anything you have to say on the subject.70s Fan (talk) 15:16, October 6, 2014 (UTC) :The reason we don't view all of the episodes in sequence is that you don't get them given to you in that way. If it's a recent transfer, you get a DVD with just that one episode on it. If it's an older transfer, you get a VHS tape with four episodes on it but they are not always in order. You'll sometimes even get a mixture of decades!! We have to take copious notes about a guest star but see their two appearances some months or even years apart and then somehow join them together to make one page. Both of us look at our notes and sometimes think "What the hell did I mean by that?". Yes, we do view different episodes rather than watch together but we do point out funny moments (usually Albert related) and things like that and I would say the mixture of new viewings v repeat viewings is currently 66%/33%. Aside from 1975, we have very little now to re-watch for places, etc, from 1969 to 1976. Anyway, this time I concentrated on 1970-71. Two great years for the show, IMHO. Both definitely strengthened by the presence of Irma Barlow - a great character and I can't help thinking that her sudden departure in December 1971 makes 1972 a bit more serious and duller by comparison. Albert was on top form again and between us we counted four instances where he conned "a drop of rum, if you're buying" out of someone in the Rovers, usually Ray Langton but Alf and Len also fell victim. The Joe Donelli storyline is better than I thought from fractured viewings of those episodes and you realise why Irma kept quiet for several weeks about the murderer of Steve Tanner: Shane Rimmer turns in a very creepy performance and the news of the way in which he beat up two other women, putting one in hospital for several weeks, scares the bejesus out of Irma. Production wise, very little to add about these episodes: nothing notably strange. The only think I would add is that in the 23rd December 1970 episode, the view of the van full of screaming kids in the street is shot looking down towards the gates of the Grape Street set and obviously shows the gates to the yard - a rare instance. As regards the floor managers words before recording starts and once it finishes, no background to any retakes or anything but 5th July 1971 is funny as he misses the countdown clock announcement totally and realises he has done so with seconds to go and just says, "Oh, missed it" while at the start of Part 2 of 14th July 1971 someone sneezes REALLY loudly and the FM says “My god, it’s Ewan dying in the wings over there.”. Over to David for his views.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 15:40, October 6, 2014 (UTC) John,thank you so much for such an expansive answer to my request. Always fascinating to hear opinions as well as the actual facts and stats. I'm also a big Irma fan and find it disappointing that she never returned- as in perhaps after Stan's death. Also found it interesting what you said about seeing more of the Donelli story. With the DVDs,it's sometimes hard to get the full impact of a plotline when you only have one,maybe two eps from the story. Re.1970,I've wondered why they didn't release any eps concerning the death of David Barlow. Was it not,perhaps,particularly well executed or maybe there was some other issue? Anyway,thanks for your views John. Incidentally,will you be able to see all of the remaining 70-76 eps at the BFI? I do hope so. Regards70s Fan (talk) 16:07, October 6, 2014 (UTC) :::The David Barlow death episode is a superb one. The episode is set over one evening and is cleverly set up so that it revolves around the residents waiting for the call to Australia. It shows the value of the Corrie archive as a historical and social document as back in 1970 there was no direct dial to Australia and calls had to be booked. They also cost a £1 a minute which must have been a huge sum for the time. There's little that anyone can do until the call comes through and Ken's anxiety grows as the time gets near. I deliberately included the reference in the plot to him getting a cold shiver down his back (which occurs within the plot at 7.50pm, ten minutes before the call is due and at the point when David dies). It's obviously someone "walking over" Ken's grave - or David's - though that phrase isn't used as such. When the call comes through, Ken has to yell down the line to make himself heard and the camera is on a close-up of Bill Roache when he hears that his brother is dead. He tells the others as the camera pulls back and Val gasps (which is the exact moment our poor resolution screen shot is taken from). He then puts down the phone and Stan takes it over as Val hugs Ken. It's a very emotive moment. So is the ending of the next episode when the telegram comes through about Darren's death. Stan is swapping a few beers with that lovely man, Jack Walker, who has come round to make sure he is okay. Stan is stunned when he reads the telegram and passes it silently to Jack who reads it and who says mournfully "Not the babby too?" The scene changes to Hilda walking round an airport to catch her connecting flight from Heathrow, not knowing what's happened. I suspect the latter was filmed at Ringway - no need to go all the way down south to get that in the can. As regards your questions about what the BFI holds, they appear to have the old and - now redundant - master tapes of every episode of Corrie that was made on the old two-inch quad tape which was an industry standard that was dropped in the mid-1980s. This shows that every episode from Episode 891 (7th July 1969) survives on this format with one possible exception - Episode 904 (25th August 1969) which the BFI don't hold - although this isn't to say that the original tape isn't with ITV or that it only survives as a film recording as is the case with the majority of the 1960s episodes. Two 1970 tapes that the BFI hold have deteriorated to the point where they are no longer playable - Episode 994 (3rd August 1970) and Episode 995 (5th August 1970), but we've managed to information on the latter from another source as our page shows and we hope to do so on the former as well. We know of no other episode from 1970-76 that's missing or unplayable at the moment but the truth is that you only get to know once you order a viewing. I'd also like to view Emily's wedding and see if it is complete and doesn't cut off like the Network version.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 08:20, October 7, 2014 (UTC) :::Thank you John. Yes,they do sound like two very strong episodes. Makes it even more puzzling as to why they'd not been included on the 1970 DVD as it's such a major event- particular for that era of the programme. But,it's good to know that the episodes were well done. Also very interesting to hear about the BFI holdings. Let's hope that all the other episodes are there and are playable. I do envy you getting to see them all. Once again,thanks for all the info. I find it all very interesting.70s Fan (talk) 16:17, October 7, 2014 (UTC) :::That's quite a reply JT! To expand on John's point about the episodes we select - my choices nearly always depend on the guest cast. At first, I went for episodes with big guest casts, and episodes with characters who were totally unknown. Happily, there aren't many of those left, and I've been moving towards smaller guest casts and episodes with characters who we've seen a little of on the DVDs. There are certain characters who pop up in different years so, as John says, we had to compile our notes from episodes viewed years apart. One character in particular who stands out in this regard is Mrs Toft, the old busybody who you might remember took an (extremely short-lived) interest in Albert's ad for a housekeeper in Episode 1047 (27th January 1971). In the early 70s she pops up absolutely everywhere, being seemingly the go-to person when the writers needed a random old lady in a scene. In some cases you can make a good guess what a character did in a particular episode so viewing all of their appearances isn't essential but this isn't the case with Mrs Toft as she's never important enough to be mentioned in the plot. So, strange as it sounds, most of my choices this time were designed to mop up most of the remaining Mrs Toft appearances so we can get an article out (and even then, she managed to pop up twice when I wasn't expecting her). ::One thing we've noticed from our viewings - particularly from the 1972-3 period - the programme back then often contained long scenes featuring little or none of the regular cast, especially whenever the action moved away from the street itself. A huge part of Episode 1235 (15th November 1972) is about a clandestine meeting in Heaton Park between the Mayor and Alderman Rogers, who go on at length about the internal politics at the Town Hall, only mentioning Alf and Len as candidates for the next Mayor at the very end of their conversation. The robbery of Benny Lewis's flat in the same block of episodes also had minimal involvement from the regular cast, as the culprits, the man they framed, the victim, and the police investigating were all short-term characters. Don't get me wrong, this isn't something that happens constantly, but it's noticeable. ::Two standout episodes from this viewing were Episode 1265 (28th February 1973) and Episode 1266 (5th March 1973). You might remember Hilda Ogden's party from the 1973 DVD in Episode 1264 (26th February 1973) which ends with Edna Gee up in the Ogdens' bedroom with a mystery man. Well, the following two episodes are far better. The first is typical Hilda on the warpath, with additional laughs from Ernie (who, for some reason, is suddenly wearing a deerstalker) who is hungover after getting drunk for the first time ever and isn't sure himself whether he was man with Edna. The next episode has everyone evacuated to the Community Centre after Albert's accident with the gas cooker at No.1. it's just a nice episode with everyone herded up in one place, and some great lines firing back and forth. As I noted in the plot, Elsie has to sit there with her hair in a towel but what I didn't mention is that she quite bizarrely has a face full of make-up the entire episode. ::You asked about early 1976. This time I saw everything from the second episode of the year until the episode immediately before Bill Podmore took over. Note that these included four double-banked episodes and those are always slower paced but what I saw was solid, if unspectacular. It was nice to see Dave Smith back though but at the same time disappointing that he would return just months before Mike arrived as I'd have like to see them together - whether on the same side or not! ::Also, do you mind if I move this discussion to the BFI visits thread in the forum? David (talk) 20:05, October 6, 2014 (UTC) ::Yours is also a quite a reply,David. Thank you. Some fascinating information there. I'll have to check out 1047 to reaquaint myself with Mrs. Toft. Episode 1266 sounds right up my street- I aways ::liked those ones where most of the cast are together- like Episode 16 and Ep 1536. There's actually a photograph of 1266 in the 25th Anniversary book in the month-by-month section. Sounds like a contender for DVD,although I realise it must have been a challenge choosing just 8 for each year. Once again,thanks for going to the trouble of noting your observations. It's so interesting to read additional info on these "obscure" eps. Regards,70s Fan (talk) 16:31, October 7, 2014 (UTC) :::So the discussion on double banking? It's just that these aren't user-specific queries so are better in the forum. David (talk) 20:11, October 6, 2014 (UTC) Agree to those final points.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 20:18, October 6, 2014 (UTC) Visit: February 2015 Hi John- I noticed you made some additions to a number of episodes from 1971-2,and 1975-6 over the past week. I presume you've seen some more episodes at the BFI. I've always really enjoyed reading your and David's observations on eps you've seen on your past visits. So any additional info or thoughts on the ones you've seen would be gratefully received. 70s Fan (talk) 00:57, February 27, 2015 (UTC) :Okay - this was very much a tidying up exercise to close 1971 and do some more in 72 and 76. The comments made over the studio clocks are on the episode pages for 15/11/71 and 9/6/71 (although I didn't bother to note that Jack Howarth has to repeat his comment as the floor manager didn't understand it first time round - also I can't recall any other occasion where the "studio" clock is actually taken out on location and read out there!! Location, of course, being just the Grape Street set and not out on the streets.). I didn't bother to note on the pages - though I did on my notes- that somebody casts a moving shadow on the Part 2 caption card and the closing caption card on the 31/1/72 episode! The Red Lion in the 5/1/72 episode was not a studio set but a rare (for the time) inside OB recording. The sequences in the last four eps of 1971 of Annie at the Robin Hood and then the Windermere Rooms are all on film and feature quite an extensive location shoot with a lot of extras and a full band on the stage. Doris Speed is only in studio for the 3rd of the 4 eps (i.e. 27/12/71) and on film only for all the rest. I'd love to know when they were filmed and how they fitted in with rehearsals and recording of the studio sessions. Perhaps one day. The final scene in the 8/3/72 episode is a very weird one! It starts off on dark grainy film, probably filmed on a miserable day, as everyone waves Paul off to the station in Alan's car. Lucille and Maggie have a couple of lines as they walk towards the warehouse and then - on shiny video - Stan walks round the corner from the shop, pane of glass in hand, shouts a comment after the now unseen Lucille and then starts work on installing the pane in place of the smashed window. I have no problem with exteriors being on film and studios on videotape but this contrast was a bit extreme. As I said on the community comment, we've now watched every episode from 1971 at the BFI and bar some plot extensions that we'll have to go back for, that year is now done. We've got every episode noted from the Granada Plus showings in April 1976 and the BFI's holdings are only from 7/7/69 onwards when the master tapes survive. Our %s for each of the other years watched and verified are currently 1970 (98.96% - one episode to go which the BFI have, Ep 994 if you're interested, but the copy of the master tape they hold can no longer be played) 1972 (67%) 1973 (54%) 1974 (60%) 1975 (82%) and 1976 (97% - just three episodes left to verify). Now some of these we have to go back and rewatch to get places - which we only started collating in 2012. For instance, we have another 6 episodes from 1970 to rewatch for this purpose and we definitely have a lot of episodes, even from 1971, to expand the plotlines on. But bearing in mind the above numbers, my personal view is that 1971 is the best year of the early 1970s for the programme. It has a sharpness and a humour that can be missing from the other years - 72 and 73 in particular. The cast are settled down with good storylines and the addition of the Warehouse brings a new focus for the programme although it's still not as well handled as Baldwin's Casuals was in the late 70s and early 80s. Albert's on absolute top form, as are the Ogdens, and the Howards are not yet into the stage of one tedious row after another, although the writing's on the wall for that by year end. Nellie Harvey appears enough to bring a smile to your face every time she walks into the Rovers with that fake smile of hers and Irma brightens up the corner shop. It really is a classic year for me.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 09:40, February 27, 2015 (UTC) :John,thank you so much for the above piece. It's always fascinating to read all those additional bits of technical info that didn't make the notes on the episode pages. Very interesting the read about the OB recording for the Red Lion,as well as the extensive location shoot for the Christmas 71 eps. Also the mix of film and video on 8/3/72 does indeed sound bizarre. From the ones I've seen,they nearly always shot the Grape Street scenes on video in the early 70s. :It's great that you and David have made such headway for the 1969-76 period. Hopefully,you'll be able to see the ITV copy of 994 at some point. Let's hope that that was a one-off at the BFI. :I'm also fascinated to read that you rate 1971 so highly. I don't suppose anyone,except for Daran Little,has managed to see-in recent decades- so many episodes from the 69-76 era.Most people tend to(as they have to,I guess) lump the early 70s into a whole,and can't really say which periods were particularly strong or otherwise. Personally,from the relatively few I've seen,I think I preferred '72- with the arrival of Rita and Norma(a character I always liked)and the return of Billy Walker for the entire year. I also liked '73 with Deirdre and Mavis- and the Kabin- becoming regular fixtures. But,of course,you're in a much better position to have a firm opinion. Incidentally,do you rate '71 as highly as 1975- another year that I think you regard more highly than the received view? :Once again,thanks for going to the time and trouble of writing the above piece. Much appreciated.70s Fan (talk) 12:39, February 27, 2015 (UTC) ::Hi 70s Fan, to add my twopence to the discussion. I wasn't at the BFI this time but over the years I've now seen a good spread of episodes from 1969-75 and only 1972 stands out as weak. The episodes for that DVD were well chosen. Of the other big storylines, you have the Jason Lomax kidnap storyline, which fell flat me as the focus of the storyline is never Ena - everyone is away at the Preston Guild for the first half of the story, and the actors playing Ena's son and daughter-in-law were very wooden, and when Ena does arrive back in Coronation Street, the police investigation dominates the screentime, although a surprisingly big deal is made of Annie blaming herself for insisting they left Jason outside, but not wanting to admit her guilt publicly. I can't say I share your love of Norma Ford, her and Jacko mark one of the low points of the early 70s for me, the other one being all the stuff with Ray and the Flemings in 1970 (the episode on the 1970 DVD being a prime example). Conversely, the Hopkins get much more stick but they actually add a lot of spice to the show for the short time they're around. ::I haven't seen as much from 1970/1 as JT and I'm not quite as enamoured with those years though I agree they're very good. My estimation of 1973 rises with every BFI visit though. Eric Prytherch seems to have improved as he went on. The showbusiness stuff with Rita is greatly scaled back, you have the beginnings of Rita and Mavis, and Deirdre is now around, as well as the last gasp of Ena and Minnie, Lucille and Elsie vol 1. Episodes from 1973 just seemed to have a lot more going on and more energy to them than 1972, and were telling more stories which were actually about the main characters. Early 1974 continues in this vein - although one surprising point which I wasn't aware of until I watched these is that Mavis leaves in the first week of 1974 and Lucille takes her job at the Kabin, so it's only because Jennifer Moss left when she did that we had that wonderful and enduring parternship of Rita and Mavis. Strongest year from this period is still 1975 for me. The only thing that makes me pause for thought is that a lot of my favourites such as Ena, Irma, Elsie and Lucille only appear earlier or in Ena's case, were better before (with apologies to Violet Carson, Ena was a shadow of her former self when Carson came back after her stroke, lovely as it was to still have her around). David (talk) 14:04, February 27, 2015 (UTC) ::David,thanks very much for adding your views. Again,as with John,I defer to your opinion on these years as my views are primarily from the DVD selections,the relatively few from this era repeated on Granada Plus and my very hazy views of seeing some of them on their original broadcasts. ::It's interesting that you share John's lack of enthusiasm for '72. I'll have to rewatch that DVD again. ::As you say,perhaps they chose the episodes particularly well for that disc. I do like Norma. Again,I remember her from first time round,and have always liked actress Diana Davies in anything she's been in. I always find her a warm and truthful actress. Perhaps,the show didn't utilise her talents to their best,tending to paint her as a rather sad character in some ways whereas she can be very funny. ::Like you,I didn't recall Mavis' lengthy absence from the show in the first part of 1974,until I noticed it on her list of appearances here on Corriepedia. Although I liked Lucille in the '60s episodes,I think she was probably the weakest link in the cast of the early 70s- perhaps,in part due to the sad things that were happening to the actress in real life at this time. ::Like you I am a big fan of the 1975 episodes. Although Ena wasn't the force she was in the 60s,I still very much enjoy her appearances. She is mellower,but also wiser. I reckon the reason the Susi Hush era is sometimes unfairly criticised is because it just comes immediately before the mighty 76-84 era,probably the show's finest ever period. But there's still much to enjoy there. ::Once again,thanks for contributing your thoughts on this whole era,David. You and John are more equipped to do so than just about anyone,and I really enjoy reading all your pieces on them.70s Fan (talk) 14:57, February 27, 2015 (UTC) :::You're very welcome. We'll be down at the BFI again this summer. David (talk) 21:05, February 28, 2015 (UTC) Visit: June 2015 Hi John and David. I noticed you got more info on more 1970 episodes last week. I presume you were at the BFI again. Does this mean you've now seen them all- apart from 994,of course- now? That's a great achievement. Hopefully you'll get to see 994 at some stage. Keep up the good work.70s Fan (talk) 20:28, June 17, 2015 (UTC) :Hi 70s Fan, yes we were at the BFI last week. We're still updating the site with the info so it'll be a little while before we post our thoughts/observations. David (talk) 23:38, June 17, 2015 (UTC) Yes,David. I just spotted you'd made lots of additions from 1972 today,after I'd posted my query. Apologies for being a bit premature. As always,I'm looking forward to reading what both you and John have to say. ::994 is not available to us at the BFI. They have the original master tape but it's no longer playable. I don't think it's deteriorated to a very great degree but just perhaps needs very specialised equipment and expertise to get it to play. Quad tape could be, and still is, very tricky to align on the machines. I understand it used to take some 20 minutes to set up back in the day. There is, of course, a copy at the ITV archive. For my part, there's very little to say this time for the episodes that I watched. We both commented at the time that there was very little special to tell you about all that we saw. They were very standard. The only two points I would make are that 1148 has two sets of long montage shots - one of kids playing in the streets and school yard as Ken walks to Bessie Street and another over the end credits. The latter sees some of the most deprived kids you've ever seen in your life and I couldn't help but think the director looked specially for them - was he trying to make some sort of political statement at the time? I was a child on a council estate in Manchester in 1972 and we were far better turned out than those children. Our mothers, though on tight budgets, made damn sure we were. The other point is that the build up in 1150 and 1151 to Rita (or Mrs Bates) appearing makes her out to be a bit of a harridan - Mr Perkins especially tells Ken not to provoke her as he never wants to go through another interview with her again - but that's somewhat at odds with the Barbara Mullaney performance that eventually occurs in 1152.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 10:32, June 18, 2015 (UTC) ::Thanks John. So,is it usual for the BFI,rather than ITV,to have the master tape? Maybe you will be able to see the ITV copy of 994 at some point. Interesting question you raise about the director's motivations in those montage shots. Also fascinating to read about the build up to Rita's first appearance. I suppose it could be either a case of a different writer having another vision of the character,or Barbara playing slightly against the script. Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my request. It's always good to read on anything you've picked up from these episodes. I suppose completing 1972,'75 and '76 are within sight at this stage. Keep up the good work.70s Fan (talk) 18:38, June 18, 2015 (UTC) :::The master tape refers to the old 2-inch quad tapes used from the 1950s to the early 1980s which are no longer industry standard. ITV converted all of them to 1 inch tape and then digital and gave the old redundant originals to the BFI. The BBC did the same with all of their old tapes as well.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 16:25, June 20, 2015 (UTC) :::I see. Thanks for clarifying John. Another interesting fact learned. 70s Fan (talk) 18:32, June 20, 2015 (UTC) Finally had the time to reply! My episodes were mostly from 1972 and 1974 with one from 1973. There were some curious episodes placements on tape which suggests it's not as random as we thought - Deirdre's first and second appearances were back-to-back even though they were four months apart in transmission. Deirdre's debut in 1236 was totally unexpected and I'd never seen it so as you can imagine, I was thrilled when I saw it was on there. I think it's Deirdre & Me - Forty Years on Coronation Street that states that she had three lines in the episode - she has more than that in fact, appearing in two scenes both set in The Vine club, although her role is still small as Elsie turns up and scares her off. I noticed as well that Ken is in her first scene, but on a different plotline so they don't interact. This being the early 70s, they wouldn't have built a set for The Vine just for two short scenes with Alan and Jimmy Frazer. No less than three plotlines take place there in the episode - Ken is investigating Benny Lewis's flat robbery and Len meets the mayor Harold Chapman there. Oh, and do check out the article on Ep 1236 for an absolute classic Hilda line! I've now seen all appearances by Archie Crabtree. To me it seemed that the plotline with No.13's porch was originally planned for Hilda & Stan, and the writers crossed out Stan on the script and wrote Archie. Archie is a slob and Hilda is always getting at him, even gets him to wear Stan's best suit to go to the Town Hall, and Len and Jerry make fun of him like they do to Stan. John Stratton is very good in the role though so they get away with it. Annie getting her stomach pumped in 1221 was an interesting one. We were a little puzzled before based on the synopses from ITN Source why Annie has taken to her bed (as seen in Ep 1219 which is on DVD). Well, this follows on from the Jason Lomax kidnap storyline, and a big part of that plot was Annie's guilt at making the Lomaxs leave Jason outside the Rovers. Annie takes to her bed as a result of this, and in 1221 when Lucille thinks she's taken a full bottle of sleeping pills, the regulars discuss whether she was trying to kill herself because of the guilt. A tad melodramatic if you ask me, but nevertheless it's good to get the full picture and shows how much you gain from watching the stories unfold. By the way, Annie is carried through the bar (although I doubt it was Doris Speed under the cover!) and from the angle the paramedics come onto the screen, they must have walked through the wall with the dart board! Jerry chasing Norma Ford chasing Ken was more fun than I expected. I commented to JT at the time that the genesis of Mavis and Derek Wilton can clearly be seen in Jerry and Norma's painfully obvious pursuit of the object of their affections by indirect means. Especially funny is a scene where Jerry - thinking Ken is tutoring Norma in history - asks Ken if he can join the lessons, only to be told that it's actually English lit she's learning. He now has to pretend that it was really English lit he was interested in all along and his u-turn is hilariously awkward. It's interesting that he went on to date Mavis and was himself replaced by Derek after Graham Haberfield's death. I'd never really thought of Norma as being like Mavis before, but the similarities are there (though Thelma Barlow's performance is far more endearing and funny). Jerry is a character I've really come to love since watching the early 70s. He's such a stand-up guy, you can't help but root for him even when he's being hopeless and patronising Mavis. Also saw Concepta's return in Ep 1228. This follows 1227 which is the Pub Olympics episode on the DVD. The most striking thing about this episode is what's not in it - Annie is nowhere to be seen and her absence isn't remarked on, even though as you've seen in 1227, there's no indication she's about to go anywhere. This happens occasionally in the 70s but they usually explain where people have gone. 1392 from 1974 was an historic episode - unless I'm mistaken, it's the first time Alf dons the white shopkeeper coat. I just had to note down Annie's comment that he didn't have a natural aptitude for it. Tommy Deakin and Michael and their trip to the races was fun - more about that when I create a page for Michael and update Tommy's. The episodes following the Majorca trip weren't so great but I wasn't expecting much from the warehouse and police scenes with Tony Bolton and Paul Meggitt in the 1434 and 1435 - the first time I saw the Majorca episodes, I forgot that plotline was even there. It's not a bad story but it's quite dragged out for Corrie in the 70s. There was a lot of fun in Annie apologising to Blanche though - as I've said in the expanded synopsis, Annie realises she's wrongfully blamed Blanche for the Rovers serving after-hours but, as you can expect, going round and offering an apology is not Annie's style. She initially tells Betty to "send for" Blanche - her attitude enrages Billy, though Blanche doesn't mind so much, finding the situation more amusing than anything. Eventually Billy makes Annie go over to Blanche's, where to be fair she offers a genuine-sounding sorry. Blanche gets the last word, telling Annie that she didn't mind as she said to herself travelling all that way at her age, she was bound to be bad tempered. Shades of older Blanche there! I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have. David (talk) 20:43, June 26, 2015 (UTC) Hi David. Once again,thanks for taking the time to give so much additional info on the eps you saw. I do appreciate it. Sounds like you had another productive visit. You must have seen most of 1972 by now. I presume that you're still of the opinion that it was the Street's weakest year of the 70s. Some of those eps sound intriguing though- Annie getting her stomach pumped,and being carried through the bar. Sounds uncharacteristically melodramatic for the period. Her absence from Concepta's comeback week is a strange one. She seems to be missing from the following week's cast also,and only appears in Concepta's final week of that 1972 stint. I wonder if Doris Speed was poorly. Great to read that Ken was there in Deirdre's first scene,and also amusing to read about Alf's first time working in the Corner Shop. I was interested to read about your observations on Norma and Jerry. As I've mentioned before,I like Norma,but would never have thought of her as a predecessor of Mavis. I hope that you've warmed more to her character in these episodes. I'd also like to see the Archie Crabtree episodes- I've seen the actor in other things and always liked him. You mentioned that the post Majorca eps being not so great. Was this primarily because of the warehouse plot? I would have thought that the scenes with the women's return would have been entertaining. Personally,I always felt that the Majorca eps were slightly marred by the Warehouse plot back home. Particularly on DVD for the more casual fan. Interesting about your final comment on Blanche. The later incarnation obviously became an all time Street legend,but as someone who has an aversion to personality changes I could see little,if any,of the 70s Blanche in her. Thanks again David for your kindness in sharing your observations.70s Fan (talk) 18:12, June 27, 2015 (UTC) 18:11, June 27, 2015 (UTC) :The women have gone their separate ways since Majorca when we first see them. We see Annie, Betty and Emily return to the street in a taxi late at night (Hilda doesn't appear this week), leading to Annie catching Blanche serving after hours. The next scene takes place the following morning and the only bit of business left from the holiday is Bet being missing. These episodes did seem weaker to me (with the exception of the Annie/Blanche scenes which were a riot) but this may be because they were the last four I watched in a session of 20 episodes over two days - I was worn out by then! David (talk) 20:14, June 27, 2015 (UTC) :Thanks for the additional info there,David. Incidentally,do you tweet on an individual account? I know the Corriepedia account is mainly tweets lnks to this site,and ihe Corriepedia pages here are,of course,mainly fact based. So,I just thought if you had a personal account,you could contribute any opinions on you might wish to share on the Street past or present. Just a thought. Thanks again David70s Fan (talk) 20:44, June 27, 2015 (UTC)